Seller/Buyer Responsibilities

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1

First of all guy’s this is not a Part 2 of vNerd vs thebanik, so do not discuss that issue here. I have started this thread to discuss issues which are leading to market section sale disputes and to give feedback so that better measures can be put in place to avoid problems.

I have come across several instances of disputes over the ambiguity of Sellers and buyers responsibilities. There should be some clear guidelines listed by the mods which the members on the forum can follow. This should ensure smooth operations on the market sections and less issues for mods to deal with explicitly.

Here are some of my inputs for the same.

  1. Seller opens a sale with clear description of the item(s), pictures and any special terms and conditions in emphasized text.

  2. Once a deal is finalized between a buyer and seller, the buyer has the responsibility to transfer the amount within a reasonable period of time as per the agreement between the buyer and seller. The buyers responsibility ends when the amount reaches the sellers account.

  3. Once the amount agreed upon reaches the seller, the seller will properly pack the item and ship it out to the buyer within a reasonable period of time as agreed upon. The sellers responsibility ends when the item reaches the buyer in the condition mentioned in the sale. Any shipping loss/damage will be the sole responsibility of the seller unless the seller has explicitly mentioned otherwise in his special terms and conditions.

  4. The sale concludes when the buyer and seller are satisfied with the sale and feedback is given.

Under implicit conditions, the seller not taking responsibility for safe shipping of the item is like the buyer saying that he has transfered the amount to the seller and that he has no responsibility whether the amount got deposited in the sellers account or not. Also, both the buyer and seller have serious responsibility to respond to the other within a reasonable period of time agreeable to both parties.

Violation of these rules should result in deal being broken off and in severe cases, punishable by a temp or permanent ban from the market section as necessary.

These guidelines/rules once put out will ensure smooth operation of the market section with minimal headaches for the mods.

2

Honestly, though logical these simply cant be implemented in community forums.

Take example of shipping insurance.

its default with companies like blue dart but when i contacted them they said min of Rs.800+ for shipping. This makes whole deal impractical.

2nd tier couriers like DTDC / Blazeflash . Insurance is optional.

Insurance is applicable only for loss, nothing else.

Some of the DTDC franchise locations wont even give option of insurance. My local branches dont. And some make it must. So no uniformity.

All seller can do is ensure bulletproof packaging. For that we can make tips and howto thread with pics.

But shipping damages is something thats noone can safely guarantee at the moment. Or stick to local deals.

3

Well finally it just comes to ur luck and which seller or buyer u are getting…I have been lucky in both respects so far

Since I stay in Ahmedabad which is like the middle so shipping hasn’t been a problem so far… I have had no problems in so far “touch wood” … All goods reached in time… and deals went super smooth…

When I first traded…i was super scared due to the trust issue… Gradually I started to became comfortable with it…

Frankly when I am selling something…if I get the payment it becomes really uncomfortable for until I ship the goods out and I receive confirmation tht the buyer as got the goods…

I have paid extra in shipping and packing which I failed to calculate before but still a deal is a deal …

My dtdc branch near my office offers good service… I hadn’t insured the goods but I did declare the contents and its estimated value…

Tracked the consigment daily after tht…

Peace of mind is when buyer says all done :slight_smile:

4

I really think sometimes these courier companies shld rethink abt the packaging part.

They shld try and put in some ideas together for one like

Charge like 25-50 bucks more and give the buyer a metal box which would be light in weight but sturdy so that nothing happens to the shipment. it would be feasible as well as safe on both the parties…

5

^ i would rather say the member should invest in some packing materials, you very well know you will be dealing sooner or later.

6

Thats what I have done at the moment. I have got some weather proofing material, lots of tape, and just bought a roll of bubble wrap the other day along with some canvas bags. Do it once and buy it in bulk, turns out to be a lot cheaper.

7

My feedback specially relates to how the buyer or seller (as the case may be) respond or follow up in case of a problem. I’ve seen a no.of threads in which either the buyer fails to send the money on time or the seller fails to send some of the accessories.

IMO, one cannot behave irresponsibly and take their own sweet time whoever they are. Once you enter into a deal with someone, it is important to fulfil your commitment and if there is some delay or dissatisfaction due to your carelessness, your priority should be to make up for the lost time or hassle caused to the other party.

You should realize that the other person involved in the deal is not your friend and won’t be as understanding towards your callousness or laziness. You should keep this in mind and act thereof keeping your other personal commitments aside until you fulfill upon your side of the deal.

Some simple things I can think of are

  1. Keep space your PM box for new messages or provide the other party with an email ID that you check regularly.

  2. If you are going out of town soon after the buyer has transferred the money, you should duly inform the buyer of the same and for how long also.

I will add more if I think of any.

8

All stuff i have sent usually goes in atleast one layer of waterproofing in dry weather and 2-3 layers in monsoons.
Peeople who have esp received gfx cards from me can vouch for that maybe.

Even after waterproofing from inside, i mummify the entire package in clear tape so that the address and number is not damaged, which again is written using a waterproof marker. :slight_smile:

I keep lots of stuff.
I buy all kinds of tape- all sizes.
Bubblewrap is a must
Thermocol peas or lots of crushed newspaper bolls.
Boxes of all sorts and sizes- i have even sent stuff in pizza boxes- they are pretty handy and not so easy to crush with light force. :stuck_out_tongue:

It does cost me a bit but better safe than sorry.

Some people are too damn cheap and can afford to send stuff rolled in newspapers too.

All stuff that leaves my place- shipped or picked up- goes with my personal non-DOA and 7-days testing warranty apart from any warranty from the dealer/distri.
Full money back guarantee if not satisfied, provided stuff is same condition as it left here.
(coz i am not a dealer and i don’t want someone i called a friend to feel cheated. :cool2:)

Of late, i am having issues with local couriers like DTDC and FF and hence avoiding shipping.

Have lost some packages in transit or to damage in transit and have refunded he buyer and haven’t asked seller for refund.- my luck it had to happen to me. :slight_smile:

9

I understand abt the difficulty in implementing about the full responsibility of the seller in case of any damages. But cant we give it even a try and see may be in one two weeks how many members come forward for such an embargo! At least the members coming out of that will be good to go & will do a lot of good to thier itrader feedback.market reputation as a whole also.

Also abt the delay part, this is where something can be done. I have seen lot of times sellers take it for granted after getting the money and even delay shipping by as good as 10-15 days to even ship out after receiving the product. I have seen in AT/H forums that if such delays happens , you are as good as a dead nut , however big or old member you are. I understand of personal emergencies but it doesn’t harm to keep the thread open till buyer receives the item and confirms it to be working fine( i have been doing so in all my sale threads in last 6 mnths or so), you can give an update about any delays or anything there.

Finally no amount of rules will actually be useful for members to ensure a 100% smooth deal as it depends more on the goodwill of the members to keep TE market a very respectable place :slight_smile:

10

Put up a packaging guide, anything below that standard its the seller’s fault..If availablity of materials is a probem OR If some deviations are to be made, take a mod’s and the seller’s approval, in writing on the thread…

If availablity of materials is a probem

To ensure, ask for more pics..in the process of packing..
May seem stupid, but only practical way out..As for things going bad cause of luck..its just your luck..

11

The foremost thing is that both buyer and seller should be aware of the terms/conditions of the sale before they initiate a deal.
If a seller is not going to take responsibility for safe delivery, then at least let him explicitly make it clear to the buyer. That way, the buyer would only go ahead with the deal if he is willing to take the risk of a possible shipping error. Alternatively the seller may restrict the sale to his home town if he is not willing to take responsibility.

when you buy from an online mall/retailer you pay him, he sends you the item and he takes full responsibility for what ever happens till the time the item reaches the buyer. The responsibility is two sided. If the seller does not keep his end of the bargain, the buyer an always pursue legal counter measures.

Compared to that, in our market sales the seller has an unfair amount of advantage over a buyer.

The buyer has to pay the full amount upfront solely based on trust (The reputation of the forum and the seller). What guarantee does the buyer have that he will receive the item.

Once the payment is made, the buyer is at he mercy of the seller on when and how the item is shipped. The seller got the money, will he ship it promptly or take his time. If the seller is not at all held responsible for shipping loss/damage, what guarantee does the buyer have that the seller is going to pack the item properly and ship it through a reliable courier.

The buyer has to commit to all this solely based on trust. For all the trust he has displayed and the amount he has spent, if his package goes missing or gets damaged or delayed/not dispatched from the seller end, the buyer is the one who is at the loosing end. Where is the sellers trust and responsibility in all this.

When you are trusting someone and sending him your money, you expect similar trust and responsibility form the receiver. This is implicitly understood. The buyer makes a payment and then receives something which was not what he payed for and then only at that point comes to know that the seller is not going to take any sort of responsibility and all his trust along with the money went down the drain.

Forum sales are based on mutual trust and responsibility, but in our current situation the trust and responsibility are one sided.

I am not saying that we should have a rule saying that the seller is responsible for shipping errors. I am just saying that when a seller does not state anything, a buyer is implicitly going to assume that its the sellers responsibility when a shipping error occurs because that is how online selling happens. So at least let the buyer be made aware before the deal that the seller is not going to take any sort of responsibility and he is dealing with the seller solely at his own risk. That way the buyer will not at least feel cheated when a deal goes wrong.

12

The word you are looking for is “integrity”. :cool2:
The thing is- like i must have ranted a zillion times- do unto others as you deem fit for self. :slight_smile:

Couple that rule with “what goes around comes around” and you have a very powerful thought.
It’s like next time you you shmoke someone’s @$$ thinking there’s no way i am meeting this person (or no chance of him/her getting back at you), someone else will shmoke your @$$ as much for sure, more if you are lucky.

It’s the way of the universe. :blush:

13

look guys. Dont even start comparing TE market to online sales sites. Its not the same. And same goes with international forum trading. I have been member of big trading sites olike AT / XS / HF / OCX since ages and seen my share of shipping mishaps /delays even there. And unlike US, we dont have damage insurance made available to us by local courier companies.

The TE market is a place where people trade 2nd hand stuff. These are personal sales and not corporate sales. And the trust is not 1 way. Ask the regular traders on TE, many of us ship before we receive a single penny from the buyers. I have done that several times when it comes to senior and even sometimes a new member in need and have even paid for it with huge losses and delays in payments ( as much as 6-7 month delay of the high value items ) Its mutual trust and it always works this way. And both buyers and sellers need to be little flexible at times.

Not every seller is a millionaire who can afford to take back items if buyer is not happy and mind you i have seen plenty of cases where just because people changed minds the deals have fallen through or gone sour and cost to the seller was loss of potential buyers and sale.

So no, trust and responsibilities are never 1 way in community forums. There cant be rule for everything and anything. Thats not possible. All we can do is to encourage both sides to improve the way we deal / ship on TE. But mind you every once a while we make some changes to TE market rules and guidelines, same and other people create a big deal out of it later.

14

Maybe this started off because off the mishap that happened with my trade…And since the other thread is closed, let me clarify a couple of things on this thread…First of all, I never ever said to vaninder over the phone that I would not take any responsibility and his deal has gone a bummer…I always said, lets go step by step and see what happens…Ofcourse I made it clear that full refund wont be possible coz of my own financial crunch…
Now packaging as well…LN said on the other thread, that sellers once recieved the money do not care how they ship it. I may not know how to ship things the best way…but maybe this pic. would show you that I was not carefree when I shipped the item. Smallerbox had the card, and the much bigger outer box had some thermocol peas or whatever you call it as.

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/2417/image064jq8.th.jpg

15

No offense was meant towards you banik :slight_smile: , I was just making a point and it has nothing to do with you.

I do agree its not possible for everyone to take responsibility for shipping loss/damages. But as I said before, I am not aksing that a rule be made forcing the seller to take responsibility for a shipping loss. All I am saying is that the seller must explictly layout his terms regarding such turn of events and let the buyer decide himself whether he would like to get on with a perticular sale. That way the buyer would not feel cheated if indeed such a turn of event occurs. When a deal is being put together on trust alone, there should at least be transperency regarding the terms and conditions of the sale.

If by default everyone is againist taking responsibility for a shipping mishap, then atleast stick it up as a general note in market section stating that unless otherwise stated, the seller is no way responsible for a shipping mishap. Its at least better than letting a buyer know only after such a incident happened to him.

But leaving shippng problems aside, there must be atleast some guidelines regarding response times of a buyer and seller. A buyer or seller should not take too much time to respond and cause inconvinience to the other party. It is fine if the other party is ok with a delay, but in most other cases it would be a rather inconvinient if the other party does not inform you before hand. If you know that there is going to be a delay (for depositing money or for shipping the item) then let the other party know so that he can decide whether to go ahead or break the deal.

16

Well I was hoping you would not post here and start this again, but you have and hence I am obligated to reply.

“Smallerbox had the card, and the much bigger outer box had some thermocol peas or whatever you call it as.”

Banik you say some, there were like may be 25(I am saying things on the higher side here, as I am sure you know very well) of them. Look at the size of that bigger box and then at the smaller.:rofl:

How do you expect 25 of those “peas” to keep the smaller box from shaking like crazy, forgetting about how it was packed inside the smaller box altogether, for a moment.:no:

Do you remember how many I put in, well over a 100. Did it shake one bit, on arrival at your place? You could have put in newspapers, anything, if you did not have enough of those “peas”. I told you, “get some cotton from the shop that makes pillows.” They will give a whole crazy bunch for Rs.10. I did that, bought cotton, when I shipped my 7600gt.

17

The message was clear in the post, it was never meant for you. But it seems you still want to pick up a fight because…

I certainly never counted the peas while putting them in, and certainly you would agree, that if you would have tried moving the box there were enuf to not make the inner box move vigorously…Yeah I would agree that It might have been moving, but at that point of time, it looked secured.

Now dont forget about the inner box as well, post it here, i did comment about it in the other thread as well, that there was not enuf space in the innerbox to move with the HR03GT on the card the way you showed in your pic, to simply put you have been exaggerating everything…

I do agree, there might have been missing links here and there…but the way you put that you have not seen worse packaging in your life, wud mean you have never dealt with anyone else other than KMD or maybe online retailers.

18

The card inside obviously moved, something obviously struck it. Things don’t get knocked off on their own. Goes against Newton’s First Law.:tongue: The inner box was pretty hard and something couldn’t have struck it and not made a dent. There are no dents on it. Most probably that little piece of thermocol sheet is the culprit and struck the card or the dvi port danced over the card.

banik you are in financial emergency and I can understand, and it is apparent to me that you will never agree with anything I have to say. So there is no point in continuing this and crapping this thread.:wink:

As for why I replied to you, it is quite apparent why I did that. You mentioned something that directly concerns me. You are trying to push your agenda here, since the original thread has been locked. If I do not reply to that, I would be an idiot of the first kind. It was a clear flamebait directed at me.:no:

I did not mention anything about our spat here, you were the first to bring it up. (Dude that sounds childish now :rofl:)

19

What??? read properly vaninder…or else please quote the part which was a direct flaimbait to you??? the remark that was related to you, you never answered that…the second part was for Lord Nemesis, and it was directed at him…

And its certainly not about whatever you say, I would not agree to it…I have always accepted my mistake, whether technically or otherwise…

but I would not accept remarks like “shoddy packaging that you have never seen in your life” - Thats pure exaggeration…Not the best of packaging, agreed. Problems with packaging, agreed. I have seen people sending graphic cards only in their original packing.

But let me drop it at this as well, otherwise its gonna be another flame war…But again what exactly is my agenda??? You mailed mods, you posted on the forum, now some1 is trying to get a new card for you as well…and you posted on a thread which was last replied yesterday morning, and what agenda do I have???

20

Mods, please lock the thread if this is going to be trouble. This thread was never meant for the discussion of a specific incident as I mentioned in the inital post, but rather to put forward some suggestions/opinions. There is no point in keeping this thread open if this is going to the source of fresh trouble.